“God created man in His own image” – Genesis, Bible.
Did God create man to his own or is it just the reverse? Let’s have a look at the characteristics of God, it’s very strangely to what we would want him to be. Man’s greatest fears are: Loneliness, sickness, death and all that is taken care of by God
- God Characteristics:
- We don’t like being alone: God is omnipresent (even when no one is with us) and is with us at all times; he never let’s us down
- We want some comfort especially through difficult times: God is always with us and will help us when we are in trouble
- We want to be forgiven for what wrong we have done and be able to start again with a clean slate: God forgives
- We don’t want things to end when we die – humans fear Death: God never gives up on us even when we die; instead we are brought closer to God, in paradise
- We don’t like unfairness: God sees all and punishes unfairness
Even more, even God’s traits seem very similar to us:
- God’s traits:
- You need to worship God – if God is so strong, remember he created the universe, does he need worshipping. That’s more like “Small Gods”of Terry Pratchett 😉
- You should believe in only one God – oddly similar to man’s ego
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
I don’t intend to disprove (or prove) the existence of God through this post. If it could be proved or disproved, other would have proved or disproved it a long time ago. I’m just presenting a few facts which seem funny/weird and seem to prove just the opposite that the Bible (or other book says). It’s far from complete and it might even seem biased – agnostic perspective.
Furthermore we would no longer need to believe in the existence of God if we could prove it. We need to believe because there is no absolute proof that it exists.
So believing or not believing should never be imposed on anyone!
Random thoughts ... 
So believing or not believing should never be imposed on anyone!
I fully agree with this… In our society, if you’re from an ethnic group and you don’t believe, you’re immediately called as “Faille “… pffft…
IMHO, God is man-made…
actually i never believed in GOD.if god exists then y terrorism occurs?y god can stop those corruption?y these inhuman activities?y some people are living their lives so luxuriously and some are starving to death?if GOD exists then y he is not helping them?
and if we are the helper and fighter they why should we believe in god?!!!we got the power.so i think we should utilize those power through some good works.we can change the earth ..we can make this world better place for coming generations.so believe in yourself.have faith in you .it would help you a lot.
Well being a muslim, It’s a must for me to believe in god.
Actually a barbor was saying to his client:
I don’t believe in god. God does not exist.
client: You are crazy. Look @ the man on the street with Afro hair style.
barbor:Yes, what’s wrong with him?
client:Perhaps he doesn’t know that barbors exist.
barbor:Well I’m a barbor!!!
client:The same way god exists.
Well from an islamic perspective concerning the apperance of God, no one has seen GOD and it the quran it is said not to think beyond else you might lose faith and fall among bad people.
For the following point, I’m just being clear and I’m not trying to offend people…
An atheist said: I don’t believe in god.
An imam said: Why?
atheist:because I don’t see god
Imam:Do you have brains?
atheist:Yes!
Imam:Can you see your brains?
and what you said is true. Believe in only 1 God. Nice article 🙂
I concur. Man has to have created God. One point that maybe u have left out is that fact that all gods or at least the bigboss are all represented as males. Given that since the dawn of man’s history the society that have existed have been male dominated then it would be obvious that God had to be a male figure as well.
On a side note, we (i.e all those who dare to think and voice it) know that religion is an ‘outil de controle’ and yet if you look at religion these days it would seem that it’s gone out of controle! Suicide bombers etc all in the name of a religion! Therefore this begs the question are some creation better than others?
There are times when science fail. Everyone thinks big bang existed. At first they took it t be a hypothesis, since they had no better argument it’s become a fact now. A man of science, when he discovered the foetus in its real form, was as eager as child to share it to the world. Of course he was an atheist, he was perplexed and ashamed when a Muslim theologian told him that it’s something 15 centuries old, the description of the foetus. He could not believe how an illiterate bedouin could have known this. He had to admit that there must be something divine in the book which describes the feat he achieved throughout a lifetime and he said maybe God exists !!
Could he not have learned it from other sources with whom the arabs did trade with like the greeks who knew about embryos way before???
Well Yasir, it’s still not a proof of the existence of God. Anyway if God could be proved to exist, we wouldn’t need to believe in it; it would be a fact!
I have no problem in people believing in God, I just have a problem with people trying at all costs to make me believe and people annoying me in the name of God!
Very interesting post and right to subject, Pascal. I love straightforwardness. It tempts me to elaborate a little further.
@Yash and Ironfist
Great replies.
I totally agree that it is man made. Long time ago people could not explain many of the things that happened around them, so they invented gods, deities, etc.
Then from here, those notions of god sending us to heaven or hell, his care of us on the other side, etc,etc. Why? Because it is very hard for most of the brains to accept that this is all we have: our life, here, right now, and that after that, bang, nothing. Only the toughest of people can face that and they are those who have the most of this life.
I just cannot stand self brainwashing like when someone dies, they cannot face the real reasons that caused that, and I hear: oh, god knows what he does, he wanted at him now, etc, etc.
Yes, it is the most powerful way to control people in this world. Just notice the words some people use: “I must”, “I have to”… Whoever uses them is not free.
@ Zetwal
There are 3 groups:
– people who never believed in god’s existence. In this case, it is a nonsense to ask them to prove the nonexistence of nonexistence. They do not have to prove anything.
– people who believe in god’s existence; they can surely be asked to prove his existence.
-people who believed in god and then they did not believe; they can be asked what made them change their mind.
Just think: we are born with an “empty hard drive” at mansarde … 🙂 What is put there depends, at the beginning of our life, of those we interact with (mostly parents, grandparents or those who take care of us). So, the notion of gods, deities, etc is introduced somehow to us: some are already brainwashed, or those who are not, when they become older enough, hear about it . How strong this is part of one’s life and thinking, depends on how “brainwashed” one got.
When we grow up, who was not totally brainwashed or cannot be brainwashed, has the courage to challenge the notion of god. If one has the courage to go the whole way (which can be shorter or longer), one somehow gets to the conclusion me, Yash, Ironfist got to.
It happens that recently I had a discussion with my friends regarding god which took us inevitably to that of life after death and god’s role in this.
Nobody “crossed over” and came back. Those who say:”oh, I saw a tunel, and then light, and all was peaceful there, and I saw my grand grandma”, bla,bla, bla, they were in coma but NEVER on the other side. What happens is that when the brain gets so close to death, it activates suddenly more, and all our memories, the dearest to us, which are stocked deep in our brain, are aknowledged at full intensity. If you pay attention to those who were in comas, their stories do not mention something negative from their life.
I did not keep track of how many patients I had for staging of brain death. But when you have to deal with patients at that stage, and the test you perform on them is the last way to prove and be sure if it is brain death or not (so establishes the status of dead vs alive), you realize that without your brain alive, you are ZERO. The most important organ is our brain: the place from where all our body is commanded, where thoughts are formed, where intuition is developed very strong in some of us, etc, and the organ that decides between dead and alive. The patient is brought connected to all machines in order for the heart to pump, the lungs to breath, but if no perfusion of the brain, nothing of these matter. You can pump how long you want, nothing ever will change or reverse.
All we are is created in our alive brain: thoughts, feelings, etc. We are also a walking electromagnetic field (nobody can deny this). We interact with each other by this too.
No brain perfusion, kaput.
@Yasir
Oh man!!!
You can see your brain. Just establish an appointment with my department and me and I will take care of the rest.
I do agree that we can’t impose the belief of God on anyone.
There’s still the whole mystery: did God create us or did we create God? Answering this small question would perhaps lead know who created who.
Anyway, man has always believed in God’s existence. In ancient times, God was the answer to all the curious happenings. In modern times, science tries to explain these.
And many of us still believe in God. Is it because this belief is so strong from our ancestors that we are bound to believe (genetics)? Or that because “it’s all the doings of chemicals and wirings” in our brain that make us believe, as a study in Newsweek stated some 5 years ago?
To all the believers: man and God are not separable. God needs man and man needs God. Man wants to believe…
@Irina, you and your department seem to be stimulated quite quickly.
Well @ zetwal, the following links answer your questions from an islamic perspective. It was a friendly debate and I hope you will not be offended:
How Islam deals with atheist:
-How Islam Deals with Atheist – by Dr Zakir Naik
– Dr. Zakir Naik on Evolution and Concept of God
As i said before, my aim was just to clarify your doubts and provide explanations through video. @Zetwal, if you would like to have interesting books concerning existence of god, just mail me.. Well don’t worry, consider this is as a friendly discussion outside uni. I won’t bug you by coming @ your office repeatedly…I’m ending my post by saying again: don’t be offended
Br,
Yasir
Hello Yasir
No probs, I’m not offended in any way (and things on my blog r not related to my job as a lecturer – I always try to enforce that). Furthermore, debate should be about ideas, not about who said what (people).
Anyway, I’ll check the videos (when my crappy Internet connection allows me to do so ;( ) and some comments I presume will follow
The picture reminds me of someone many among us know…
totally agree with Ally, the picture seems somewhat familiar 🙂
IMHO,
Religion is man made
Society is man made
god is a principle [OR a power that is always here, but which we can’t grasp]
I firmly believe in god, while I view religion as interesting communities that can help me understand human being (i.e each each seems to be solving specific problems which existed at specific places and periods.. though one needs to be open minded to adapt things).
(remember that i believe god is almighty, yet unknown, sometime i would interchange it from a physical being (which i doubt god is), sometimes i interchange it to some force somewhere)
so…
I have always tried to understand what does god think, or why doesn’t god help everyone, does it matter if everyone prays or not?
I did an experiment to try to understand that:
Everyday (for 3 years), I had to wash a small area (outside floor), (my part of housecleaning), anywayz, while washing, I always see that there are lots of ants walking around, I feel sad for em that they get drowned, crushed or whatever while i clean up the place. I just couldn’t bear seeing those ants dying, then it reminds me how people suffer in this world (I always used to ask myself why doesn’t god help those suffering people).
Now, I said, well, If god is doing his job wrongly, then I must be god, coz i am better, I thought, well, I better start helping and saving every one of those ants, because to them, I am like god and i can decide all their life if i wish, so i began my journey on becoming god…
but soon I realized how hard the job is, for a small area, with a small amount of ants (around 20 ants maybe everyday), I used to in the beginning take a jug, try to run the jug infront of the ant slowly.. (since this way, they’ll naturally move on the jug and hence get saved), i used to save em all, but soon I realize that there are more and more ants, I started saving the ones which were closer to me, I even started to tap the jug on the floor 5 times before starting collecting ants (thinking that hopefully they’ll understand they better get closer to me for me to save em before i pour down the water from the pail over the floor). So I started collected every nearby ants (the hose usually fills up the pail, and start to overflow.. its a race against time), I try to save the max of ants that i can, some of em hides in small cracks and hence I can’t reach em, therefore they get drowned, others instead of getting on the jug they don’t move….
but wait a minute…
I have been saving only a limited number of ants since a long time after that i found that there were too many to be saved, it was not a question of power, i.e, whether i do have the power to save em or not, but it was they who didn’t wanna come and get saved despite all the pain i am going through to save em…
It was then that i realized, god must be having the same problem, probably, by doing bad actions and bad thoughts, we move in a path where god can’t access it and can’t help us out, so probably if we are to suffer, it might probably be of our own fault, now this doesn’t answers whether god exists or not, but atleast it might shed some light on why there are many people that suffer.
Probably its not our actions, probably it is something else that we need to do to move in a place god can come and help us, we being like those ants, but unfortunately, we don’t understand what those 5 jug taps on the floor means and what we are supposed to do when we hear it…
But sincerely, i don’t believe religion is affiliated to god, probably religion might be a possible way to move towards god, but then, religion is man made, so it definitely is biased.. probably only those who ‘invented’ religion knew what they wrote and we just wrongly interpreted things over time… but am sure religion can’t claim that it knows god better than anyone else.
So its better to lead a good life by being a good human being rather than being religious and full of hypocrisies (pa konE si mot la exist).
Sure i am religious, but i strive to be a good person also..even though by being ‘liberal’, open minded, and freedom believer people thinks that i am the devil …well that’s probably coz i tell ppl right in the face when they f*ck things up.
nice entry btw :), interesting topic
+$3|v3n
*didn’t meant to say that religious people are bad, I only wanted to mean, good actions and tohughts makes a good being, whether religious or not.
+selven
quote form ironfist:
Given that since the dawn of man’s history the society that have existed have been male dominated then it would be obvious that God had to be a male figure as well.
reply to ironfist
Hmm actually, in the hindu religion, god, no one knows who is god, though it is said that god took this form at xyz timeline, there’s shivashakti who is both male and female.
Religion is not man made… how come you follow a religion which people have created from their own wisdom.Religion means a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny. and the supernatural power is god.
@Selven:So its better to lead a good life by being a good human
Being a muslim, the best example of a good human being is our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)…Why does god not help other people?Ans: Do the other people believe in god? Are they religious?Are they good people?Do they strive in order to acquire money?
Why are there poor people?Ans: How would life be if everyone was rich? Wouldn’t it be a waste of time,dull life if everyone got what s/he wanted?Islam says:We(people) are here on earth as travellers and everyone will be present in front of god on the day of resurrection where your book of deeds will open and you’ll get a place in paradise according to what you have achieved on earth..You are often put to trials on earth where god witnesses your reaction.Your aim should be to help others, behave in a proper manner, respect others,etc…(everything practiced by the prophet peace be upon him).. concerning your statement, god is facing difficulties and can’t access etc…
in quran, allah says: Allah has power over everything.. Now you must be wondering: Is quran god’s words or does god exist??
visit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2s14T6x5AM
and if you wan’t to know about allah:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAhKdL_1fYQ
i never understood y people believe in god….
as Selven said “So its better to lead a good life by being a good human”
@Yasir
if God has power over everything then how cum “Innocent pay lepocaser”
About the youtube videos:
The very fact that God has to be believed in means that no proof has yet been established about the existence of God.
For example, I do not need to belive that the earth is round. Whether I believe that or not is immaterial, it’s a fact that the earth is round and believing that it’s flat doesn’t make it flat!
Personal conviction has never been a proof.
Proof of existence of God:
Most proofs of the existence of God rely on one basic idea: Since I can’t explain how “it” is possible, it must be God.
Hold on, the cavemen did not comprehend the lighting, the sun,.. and so made them God. Do we still consider them divine?
Just because we cannot explain something with our current state of technology and knowledge does not mean that they are the work of God.
@Zetwal, if this is your point of view, then prove that god does not exist!!!!
you do not need to believe the earth is round? It has already been proved dear.. In the holy quran, the following have been explained:
– How babies are born
– The life cycle of rain/ants/bee/spider
– The place on earth where sea water coincides with normal water
Well Quran is the word of god!!It was revealed 1400 years back and all the scientific facts had already been told @ that time and now the scientific facts are being matched.
“What, now! When previously you rebelled and were one of the corrupters? Today we will preserve your body so you can be a Sign for people who come after you. Surely many people are heedless of Our Signs.” (Qur’an, 10:91-92)
This proves the existence of Allah, since the following links prove that the above verse is true about pharaoh
As you can see:
http://www.55a.net/eng/23.htm
http://www.islamcan.com/cgi-bin/increaseiman/htmlfiles/static/10686036243743.shtml
An interesting book for you:
http://www.irf.net/book1.zip
Darkness in the sea:
http://www.55a.net/eng/22.htm
Well protected repository period:
http://www.55a.net/eng/20.htm
Miracle in Iron:
http://www.55a.net/eng/17.htm
Do carefully have a look @ those links since they have proved many things and I expect Allah(islamic way of saying god)to guide you
If you want to have further proofs, do visit the whole website:
http://www.55a.net/firas/english/
As I’ve said we cannot prove or disprove the existence of God.
Whatever link, book, website, videos,… you might refer to, none of them can prove with 100% certainty that there is a God. Also as long as people say I believe in God, it will mean that they have no absolute proof – something proven doesn’t need believing in.
Finally if you believe in something it does not mean that it is the truth – it is your belief but you must accept that other people do not need to have the same belief as you.
Now I will reiterate what I initially said:
Believing in God is something personal and should not be imposed on anyone.
Finally if you believe in something it does not mean that it is the truth – it is your belief but you must accept that other people do not need to have the same belief as you.
Then even if answers are wrong, teachers must accept them as good answers from the students’ perspective.
if quadratic formula is ax2+bx+c then any1 can say I don’t believe in this formula it will b better if i use my own method. Everyone can claim that newton’s laws of motion are completely wrong and any1 can say that he doesnt believe in this theory and can therefore claim that newton and other scientists are not right ;). If a teacher is correcting a student’s script, he can use his own theorem although the teacher urges him to use another one
As I’ve said we cannot prove or disprove the existence of God.
Whatever link, book, website, videos,… you might refer to, none of them can prove with 100% certainty that there is a God. Also as long as people say I believe in God, it will mean that they have no absolute proof – something proven doesn’t need believing in.
Besides, your arguments are not clear. One 1 side you say that you cannot prove or disprove the existence of god and then you say none of them can prove with 100% certainty that there is a God. Also as long as people say I believe in God, it will mean that they have no absolute proof It means you are puzzled and you actually don’t know what you have said…
Believing in God is something personal and should not be imposed on anyone. not to offend you, if this is what you mean, then you shouldnt have posted this article as you have not gone according your own principles. You have just violated your own rules.
Br,
Yasir
1. A law is something which has been proven (e.g Newton’s laws) and God is a hypothesis.
If you decide to believe in the law (e.g Newton’s laws) or not is your personal decision, it will not make the law false. The law does not depend on your belief.
If you believe in something, it doesn’t mean you are right. If you believe that the earth is flat, does it make it flat and should a geography teacher award you marks for that? … your argument doesn’t make any sense.
2. To make things clear: I said that we cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. None of the references you made (articles, videos,…) proves that God exists – I said we cannot prove and I said none of your references proves it. Where’s the inconsistency?
3. I’m not imposing on anyone. Whoever wants to read my blog reads it and those who don’t want, don’t have to. Also I’m asking to be given the choice. So what am I imposing? Am I imposing my right to be given the choice … come on!!!!
Prove to me (with clear arguments – none of your arguments above made any sense) that God exists. I’ll be waiting…
Looks like the subject has hit what can be called a stand off.
Just one little point that I wish to address. In relation to Comment 21 by Yasir, the following:
Believing in God is something personal and should not be imposed on anyone. not to offend you, if this is what you mean, then you shouldnt have posted this article as you have not gone according your own principles. You have just violated your own rules.
Seriously how can zetwal have violated his own rules? The blog is merely a website where a person illustrates his point of view and therefore it follows that the aim of this article is not to make someone concur or not with them. Further if you re-read the article, it states clearly that the aim is not to prove or not the existence of God, merely to point out certain “inconsistencies” (for lack of better word even though the word can have a negative connotation) and I wish to draw your attention to the view the last words in the paragraph before last “agnostic perspective.”
Clearly Zetwal was stating that perspective and not a general fact.
Therefore I do not believe that Zetwal has violated his own rule in any way. At any rate if you look at other articles on this blog you will see that all of them express his view point most notably certain about society and racism and again to re-iterate the fact that this articles is merely a point of view (agnostic) and not an article to convince or not.
On a side note, I think this article has achieved its objectives since you will see that the number of comments generated has been quite high.
Prove to me (with clear arguments – none of your arguments above made any sense) that God exists. I’ll be waiting…
Perhaps you are not among those who devote their precious time to understanding scientific facts as revealed in holy book 1400 years ago.
The thing which has impressed me is
Hello I’m Pascal, aka Zetwal on the Web. I’m 26 years old and I work as lecturer at the University of Mauritius. I just want to live a simple happy life but ,oh God, how tough is that! 🙂
You don’t believe in god yet you cited the word “god”… Seems you have accepted the truth that god exists 😉
One thing: I’ll never give up bugging you on your blog about this issue 😉
Well and don’t forget what einstein said:
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind
“oh God” – this, my dear, is an English Expression. Perhaps in addition to studying the holy scritures you should study some other books as well, … like books on english grammar.
“I’ll never give up bugging you on your blog about this issue ” – This is my blog, I can spam your comments whenver I want!!! But I won’t do that (unless you get vulgar). It will be fun to see you fight nd eventually lose!
Also, you have still not proved to me (with clear arguments) that God exists. So I’m still waiting…
Absolutely excellent replies, Pascal!
P.S. I have to postpone some of my comments because of time right now, but I will be back soon … That guy’s fight is a lost one from start.
In relation to the statement of zetwal “oh my god, …” I agree with zetwal this is only an expression just the same as “go to hell!”, “hell no” or “god forbid” etc which doesn’t mean that the person saying it believes in hell or heaven coz by analogy it s believing in religion.
Now something has sort of struck me abt Yasir “i’ll never stop bugging u abt this on yr blog”
Basically earlier at comment 23 I believe u stated, rather stupidly I, that Zetwal had violated his own rules to which I replied and I note that you have yet replied to it but by adding that u’ll never stop bugging this blog abt that are u not doing the same? or maybe perhaps it doesn’t matter to u since u MUST convert others to yr view point?
If that is not the case then by all means explain and expatiate your view point without EVER thinking that it IS THE ONLY CORRECT ONE and without EVER IMPOSING IT ON OTHERS.
A bon entendeur salut
Me loser? lol… You havent proven yet that god does not exist
Well let me start over:
Can you tell me about creation of earth from your perspective?
Yes you’ll lose. You haven’t proved me wrong till now while I have proved u wrong a number of times. So who is losing???
You haven’t proven yet that god does not exist – I do not intend to coz it can’t be proved! To refresh your mind, this is what I originally said: “I don’t intend to disprove (or prove) the existence of God through this post. If it could be proved or disproved, other would have proved or disproved it a long time ago.”
To again refresh you mind, you want to prove that God exists. So prove it, I’m still waiting… (3rd time now I’m saying that and I’ve not got an answer yet!)
Earth’s creation – Read “A Brief History of Time” by Stephen Hawkins. Apart from English language books you should be read science books as well.
Yasir, either you didn’t see the word ‘agnostic’ or you failed to go 4 some research about its meaning. I myself learned about that word only last week. Do read & understand an entry in its entirety b4 making sarcastic or nagging comments.
Then you can judge for yourself what image you projected of yourself when in 29. you say ‘you haven’t proven yet that god does not exist’ to someone of agnostic perspective.
As analogy, it would be akin to asking an atheist ‘you haven’t yet proven to me that god exists’.
Lastly, if you’re such a firm believer, then why should you be so shy to share some facts (with clear arguments) about God’s existence?
If you have so much conviction about having the right answer, given you devote your precious time to holy books, you should easily be able to do so. Mentioning some bare facts pointwise would be more than ok. The plus point is you get to relieve the other fellow bloggers from reading exhaustive paragrahs, click other links etc.. and to kill 2 birds with the same stone, you could show to them you can still bug effectively about this issue.
Hmm.. seems the discussion got hot since i came here last time.
Anywayz reply to yasir are in my previous post, should read that first well 🙂
also, i am a believer in god, though a lesser believer in religion, but i still follow a religion because i believe religion does has its place in the society and it comes with a set of guideline that one might use to lead a life of a good human being, though since it is man made, another human being can find another way to do the same thing, so, if someone doesn’t believe in religion and yet lead a good life, it is perfectly possible.
And i dare challenge anyone in here that i can prove you that religion is definitely MAN MADE.
Though god isn’t man made, and i believe in god, you can’t prove god doesn’t exist, nor can you prove that it exist, but i prefer to be among the believers than among those who don’t believes, yet this doesn’t make me any superior or inferior, coz my beliefs are mine :).
pascal, please register me for follow ups by mail if possible for this thread.
Follow ups! I think zetwal would have to post a new blog about the views battle going on here..
And I’d like to spice up things for this topic: assume we’re not able to prove God’s existence/ inexistence. But ghosts/ spirits exist, don’t they? We hear of cases where deceased one comes home to lament at door step/ near window, tales of haunted houses & bizarre happenings, possessed persons… we can infer there’s another immaterial plane, a yet unexplored dimension (6th dimension?) – which we again can’t prove/ disprove either.
If one agrees spirits exist, then, is it necessary think that there might be a creator of them spirits? For those ki p declare ‘chinois nef’, let me cite ‘grand dimoune’, allume la bougie rouge – dipain sargine/ gardien la cour, saint malgache, even saint gabriel, mauvaise air, and the famous 1994 loupgarou episode where whole towns were affected & everyone stayed outside for 3 nights.
I bet I know the reason why Selven believes in God: because he cannot explain how tamil people slowly walks on live coal during the ‘marche sur le feu’ n still doesn’t burn their feet. Facts like this confuse me, especially when I ask myself how the ‘loving God’ we’ve been hearing about never comes to the rescue on innocent kids being raped/ permanent slaves/ given slow death out of hunger..
I bet I know the reason why Selven believes in God: because he cannot explain how tamil people slowly walks on live coal during the ‘marche sur le feu’ n still doesn’t burn their feet.
I believe in god, just coz i believe, i don’t question it, nor will ever, unless one can prove otherwise.
The thing is, its not related to marche sur le feu neither. I do participate in a lot in marche sur le feu (around 5 times yearly), the thing is, thisi s part of religion, and i do realize it, scientist would say that just before you walk on the firebed, that the person about to walk gets in a sort of trance, well.. assume scientist are right, but then, scientist were never able to understand trance much (the brain is a vast unknown territory for scientists :p).
Now who knows whether in that moment of trance we get some sort of ‘close with god’ ?
If you look well.. in practically all religions there are times where a sort of hardship on the body is done… which will make ppl go in a sort of trance also, so…. we are in a region scientist don’t know a lot about, so i guess… they won’t be able to explain that.
yet, even if they manage to come with a correct understanding of how a trance works, or how the brain works, I’ll still believe in god, coz that’s my right :p
“… well, If god is doing his job wrongly, then I must be god, coz i am better, I thought, well, I better start helping and saving every one of those ants, because to them, I am like god and i can decide all their life if i wish, …”
Really nice, poignant reflection of yours
And maybe you should imitate holy-books-described God/s and ask those ants: “you should pray to me everyday without fail. Worship me, your god, and only me bla bla bla”. God could be so vain & narcisisstic, while we human should be humble, with humility.
Yeah even my biology teacher, whilst at college, gave the same explanation ‘trance’ to marche sur le feu phenomenon. The trance element is there, but it’s not sufficient. I’ve seen a girl [my classmate] walk real slow, where the skin contact with the coal wasn’t brief. In normal situation, SAMU would have been called to take away a girl with barbecued feet.
That’s a mystery that keeps my usually overpowering atheistic side at bay [even I did particpate once, I didn’t get burnt].
And yes, another mystery: i’ve seen people touch a spoon containing near the mouth statue/ idol [i think tulsisham temple near b bassin], and the milk disappears. I tried it, n sure, the milk disappears [it was plain cement statue, not porous, no hole or anything]. I think this event was being mentioned in mbc news [some years now]. Then I witnessed another person touching the spoon to the glass frame [goddess photo inside]. N the milk disappeared! Yet, I still ask myself how helpful this milk-display is, has humanly problems been solved? Have people become more compassionate?
Things are spicing up!!! Unfortunately, my reply regarding “all mighty”, has to wait a little bit…
In the meantime, here is the explanation regarding walking over a bed of glowing coals without getting burned at all.
http://express.howstuffworks.com/mb-firewalking.htm
All is an old trick and applied science. Stop thinking in terms of “trance”, “god’s interference”, etc. One should use the brain because there is a very limited time for this, so do not waste life running to so called ‘all mighty’ anytime something makes no sense for your brain because you refuse to question enough things around you and develop your brain to a higher level.
And maybe you should imitate holy-books-described God/s and ask those ants: “you should pray to me everyday without fail. Worship me, your god, and only me bla bla bla”.
Religion is not god, its like saying, those who writes books on invention made by some dudes long long ago, and the one who writes the books claims that the AUTHOR thought of THIS THIS THIS and THAT, and THIS MUST be done THIS way, its just ego on the side of the author, yet, it does have some truth though even if it may not be THE exact thing.
now @Irina :p
hahaha, the gud news is, :p I being curious as i am, always go in and learn the art to prepare a proper firebed, and like i said, sincei was a kid, i have been walking around 3 to 4 times yearly, so, i am well placed to try to answer your points.. following the articles in that article you gave, i shall answer the points bits by bits :p
1. Firewalkers are not actually firewalkers. They are really coal walkers. Someone lights the fire well ahead of time to allow the wood to burn down to non-flaming coals.
Sure the wood burns to coal, burn when there is strong winds, there are flames.
2. The event is always held at night. If it were done during daylight, the bed of coals would look instead like a bed of ashes. There is always a layer of ash covering the coals. By doing it at night, the glowing red light is still visible through this layer of ash.
Sorry to dissapoint you again, most of the time, the ceremony is held during the summer afternoon … in mauritius i.e.
17hrs in summer in mauritius is NOT AT ALL dark!
You’ll see it ashy, wind blows, you see it glow :p
3. The firewalker never dawdles. No self-respecting firewalker would run across the coals — that would be undignified. But firewalkers certainly are walking briskly. You never see firewalkers just standing around on the coals.
Sure, there are some that kinda like to ‘show off’ (which is not very well appreciated around here), they move the coal here and there with their feet, walk in the corner, in the center, and not in necessarily in a straight line, some also take a hell of a time to walk (kinda frustrates me seeing ppl showing off like that), though once a while i did walk as slowly as that (not coz of showing off, but coz i was pissed off with life).
As far as not seeing the people standing on the firebed :p, well, its called firewalking, and not firestanding as far as i know, nah?
If you were to stand still on the coals for several seconds, you would definitely get a burn. By walking quickly, you keep your contact with individual coals very short.
There are people who get burned at those events, even ppl who walked quite fast :p
Experiment to try:
> Try Approaching near the firebed and you’ll feel the heat
>After the ceremony is over, (or before(note this isn’t allowed)), try pressing your thumb on it (note that when you stand, your whole body weight crushes your leg deep in the coal), well, try placing your thumb on the firebed, for around 1minute 50 seconds (average time to cross a firebed), pulling up the thumb at interval of 0.5 seconds (made it less for you :p), tell me if it is hot or not then 🙂
ps. I am SURE that whoever wrote this article on the link you gave is an idiot who hasn’t even gone to a real timidhee :p, you are cordially invited for some real ones, 9th december, 25th december, and 1st january 🙂
pps. I usually agree when proofs are logically correct and holds, but form personal experience in that field, i know from reading it that the guy having written it doesn’t know what he is talking about… since like i mentionned above, has many points which do not hold :p
ppps. I never said it is what god said.. read well when i mentionned about “god is god”, religion is another thing.
pppps: I would have liked if the author of that article could join in the debate :p
And final note, I don’t believe in god because of all these things, those are religious things, i do it coz i want to do it, I believe in god, just coz i want, nothing more. I clearly see the difference between god and religion (that’s soo arrogant to say :p)
+$3|v3n
It is a combination of science and tricks in the most challenging demonstrations. That’s my point.
@ selven
Excuse me, when you are saying “you” in your comments regarding the the link I found, you are referring to who?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire-walking
Excuse me, when you are saying “you” in your comments regarding the the link I found, you are referring to who?
to both, the author, and whoever believes that this article has been well documented before writing, like I said, nothing hurts if you do some on terrain testing 🙂
ps. the previous article had nothing “concrete”, while the wikipedia link…
I may view this “When two bodies of different temperatures meet, the hotter body will cool off, and the cooler body will heat up, until they are separated or until they meet at a temperature in between.[3] What that temperature is, and how quickly it is reached, depends on the thermodynamic properties of the two bodies. The important properties are temperature, mass, specific heat capacity, and thermal conductivity.”
,as a point.
Btw, i do know that there is a scientific reasoning behind it (am happy that you finally got it, please also note that we are talking about religion & culture here), :p maybe you should also seek that there is a psychological explanation about it :p, if you read well above, you’ll see that i mention about trance, :p before the firebed, your brain will definitely start to fall into a trance, 🙂 …as the study of brain is also science i believe.
Anywayz, in your wikipedia link, i also noted that some employees of KFC australlia got severely burnt.
“It is a combination of science and tricks in the most challenging demonstrations. That’s my point.”
That’s not the point, :p, the topic of the discussion is about god and faith :p, so is your brain pattern changed while doing that firewalking?
what am trying to say is, when you are doing firewalking (okie, i should restricting myself to only one tihng, let’s say fasting, or like muslims do 1 month of fasting, hindu, christians etc.. also fast), they get themselves in a certain mindset, a rigourous change for the body and mind, does this make us become like the ants who gets near me so as i can save em?
sure, while not believing one can definitely at some point of time if they act as good human beings reach the good path.
Now, my opinions about religions, like i said, i always believed religion to be man made, but that it kinda offers some guidance, but we must not take it all “by the book”, always use our sense of logic to reason about it. SO there are religious people who despite thinking they are believers are actually non believers, while some atheist might actually be believers when they think they don’t believe.
What the heck am i talking?
Do you sincerely believe that being religious and thinking that “i believe in god” and yet not being a good human being would make that person a believer? Actually, he himself is auto-fooling himself.
Now, there is also the case of the atheist who says he doesn’t believe in god, but yet, being a good human being, don’t you believe that this person is actually a believer in god despite he thinks he doesn’t believe in god??
Because, if you don’t believe in god, and there’s nothing afterlife, or that a human being can master all that he wants, then why not conquer the whole world, kill everyone who is in your path to prevent your ascension as world leader ? Don’t tell me its the law, with enough will, the law can easily be defeated, now don’t tell me you don’t have that much ambitions? why won’t you kill everyone and reign after? Because, well, the rest of em are just, mere flesh and bloods without purpose walking, even the judge is just a mere figure we decided to keep there? Maybe you might say you are happy with the current system, but then what’s the purpose of your living then? to be just someone who was born and went away without leaving a trace in history? or to be someone who came just to use some of the world’s natural resources then went away after that?
:p
ps. am still in the topic… :p r u?
+selven
@ selven
Excuse me again, why you made any comment on firewalking if you claim to be the one who sticks to the point of discussion? So pay attention to your brain first, and then talk about others’ brain.
I am not the one who brought in discussion firewalking, but I perfectly see the point of the person who brought it in. If you do not see it, it is your own problem.
The first link contained practically THE SAME scientific explanation (just in a shorter version) as in Wikipedia (as a matter of fact, from there I got it). But all you did in your rely to that link was to comment exactly on the less important things in that explanation and to call “idiot” someone you seem to agree from scientific point of view (which is all that really matters in that link and should have been commented on from the beginning; you seemed to agree with the same scientific things once you read them from Wikipedia…).
You say you did “terrain” search, right? Then what are you waiting for? Go and get your million dollar prize (it is a very serious thing). If you do not know what I am talking about at the time you read this, than how well documented you claim to be??
Claim your trance thing there and prove it. The whole world is waiting for this person since last year. They had no idea is selven from Mauritius… it is your chance at international level to leave a trace in the history…
Pay more attention to your replies because they are revealing an advanced mess at some level…
No more comments.
@Pascal
Congratulations again for posting about this subject. It helped a lot in closing the research part of a case in Mauritius, by confirming once more (in case was still necessary) that the first assumptions in that case were totally right 100% from all point of view. You might here one day about this case and you will make the connection at that time.
Excuse me again, why you made any comment on firewalking if you claim to be the one who sticks to the point of discussion? So pay attention to your brain first, and then talk about others’ brain.
hahaha …firewalking was brought up by kaz, and you supplied arguments against it, which then i decided to debate against your reasoning about it!
:p so before talking about my brain, check out the topics and posts in it ..lol
I am not the one who brought in discussion firewalking, but I perfectly see the point of the person who brought it in. If you do not see it, it is your own problem.
Hmm…his point neutralized your points, and i decided to put in some more logical aspects to it.. and you came in with an article about it which was not properly documented… its only on the second attempt that you got a nicely well documented article… which :p i can be satisfied of.. but which still doesn’t explain…the state of the brain just before the sudden ‘fear’ of fire.
The first link contained practically THE SAME scientific explanation (just in a shorter version)
LOL, he had too much of contradicting arguments in his article..lol (did you read it before giving me the link..lol)
someone you seem to agree from scientific point of view (which is all that really matters in that link and should have been commented on from the beginning; you seemed to agree with the same scientific things once you read them from Wikipedia…).
Did i agree, or did i say it is a much acceptable argument? :p
Is science only physics and chemistry? Is there no biology in science? Isn’t neurology part of science?
the CIA spending $20M in Extrasensory Perception research programme did come up with quite interesting results on how we fail to understand the brain, and also how the brain can become dangerously powerful under high amount of stress of pressure… :p and you never know if it could be let’s say, open up a channel to talk to god? (i.e assuming that god exist), and i prefer to believe that god exists… :p Because don’t forget that Science itself (including maths), is themselves based on Assumptions! So if you really claim to be a non believer, then you ought to be living life widly, hunting down your food in a jungle :p, without making assumptions and beliefs, we would have still been retards munkeys in some caves.
There are a LOT of things we take for granted by thinking that science is perfect and exact … it isn’t exact, and it definitely is holding on lots of strings(beliefs/assumptions), and ifyou are a scientific you must be ready of the possibility that everything might crumble down one day when all those assumptions turns out to be false.
So like i always say… I prefer to be among the believers :), and i do firmly believe.
You say you did “terrain” search, right? Then what are you waiting for? Go and get your million dollar prize (it is a very serious thing).
Lol you seem to be a really bad scientist.. if you were one that is…lol
Read what i said on assumptions.
Secondly, :p I can prove the article to be fake, I did invite you for one fire walking ceremony 🙂 come and do the test for yourself!
Proving something to be fake doesn’t imply that my point is right… :p but it does take off the erroneous assumption… and it does imply that my assumptions might be true! 😀 pwned 😀
Claim your trance thing there and prove it. The whole world is waiting for this person since last year. They had no idea is selven from Mauritius
My GOD, you horribly needs to READ a lot 🙂
It is not selven of Mauritius who came up with this hypothesis!
hahaha, there’s a whole branch in psychology that deals with ESPs! Parapsychology, rings a bell?? :p Well use google to find more about it!
hahaha, weight your arguments and documentations before commenting …lol
Pay more attention to your replies because they are revealing an advanced mess at some level…
Indeed, there seems to be some advanced mess, you don’t seem to be reading comments properly before replying to em, neither are your documenting yourself properly :p
:p
@Pascal: am sure you must be lol’ing crazilly seeing that she just threw a big stone on her own foot!
irina: IRATD :p, you can’t get me at those :p..lol
+$3|v3n
You know what selven I think superman exists. And you can’t prove that I am wrong.
We should follow his rules because he is good and nice and handsome. And far cooler than god.
hail to superman and the Invisible Pink Unicorn
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorne_rose_invisible
And by the way if you like to talk with non believers you will find many here
http://www.islamla.com/
@jojo:
Sure you can believe in Superman, you are free to do so 🙂
But remember that superman is just …according the books, :p a creature born like any other animal :p hAh :p, still you are free to believe or not to.
and for the islamla stuff :p , I wish to again clear out… there’s a difference between religion and god :p.
Excellent proof that what I said is right !!!
Thank you Pascal for posting it.
@ Selven, religion is not man made..take for example islam(my religion) it’s not man made..The quran is the words of god(Allah) and in this book, allah says that he will take the responsibility of preserving the quran and no one will be able to alter the contents and create a new one and this has proven to be true over centuries since no one has been able to falsify, introduce new things etc…
@jojo_le_canard come one dude, you still believe in superman and invi… so why didn’t he come to rescue those people when world trade centre collapsed?? was he busy with his gf or what??
@Irina lol.. you believe you have set ablaze to the conversation by saying some simple congratulations??? hahahaha it was really amazing to see the geovah witness getting perplexed when I told them that bible had many contradictions and it’s not the word of god. For e.g they said that jesus and moses were indeed people who were very close to god and we should follow them and yet they themselves don’t follow these prophet:
1) In bible it is said that before prayers should be subjected to ablution and yet none of them do practice ablution since when I asked: How do you perform the ablution? and they kept mum staring @ me.
2)Some women pretend to be very nice and used a very intuitive approach towards me but when I told her that the bilbe said: If a lady who is preaching the bible does not cover her head, she should shave her head..This verse from the bibled helped me a lot to convince them to what extent they are leading a erroneous life.
Still Irina atheists haven’t proven existence of god… When you interrogate them about evolution of man, they say “According to darwin’s theory man evolves from monkey” but the impressive thing is that never did Darwin say something like that as mentioned in all encyclopaedias..Yet it’s easy for them to say that god does not exist and when it comes to extent of proving that god does not exist, they get stuck…
My religion islam gives accurate information about development of babies in the mother’s womb and this has been proven scientifically. Remeber Quran was revealed 1400 years back and NOW ALL FACTS MENTIONED ABOUT DEVELOPMENT AND BIGB ANGHAVE BEEN PROVEN SCIENTIFICALLY How can you people say that god does not exist?
Jojo was being ,what we call, “sarcastic” (learn English plz) and I can see his point: if people can believe in God with so flimsy evidence, they might as well believe in superman!
…the others will defend themselves.
Well I’ve never seen these in the Bible (but I have not read the Bible for a very very long time now). So any references to any Book should be accompanied by proper references saying which page or verse or … anyway if that’s mentionned it’s dead stupid. Maybe it was ok more than 2000 years ago but certainly bullshit nowadays! Anyway, If my memory serves me right, even Jesus was against such practices!
Also, from what I’ve gathered on websites, what is mentionned in the Quran is not as scientifically accurate as you’d want us to believe Yasir. So I’m still waiting for conrete proofs which have still not come.
Also, just saying that what is mentionned in the Quran 1400 years ago, no one could have said that is no proof: most of the things you claim have double meanings + you should read about the history of the world: many things about what u claim were not know 1400 years ago were known 2000 or more years ago; just read about Erastosthenes for example.
It is way too boring to read the above. All I can suggest is to have faith in yourself and in the higher power. At times of need, faith in something higher than you are, does come handy to appease your mind.
can you please tell me from which sites you have gathered information about the quran?? Not all sites depict original and accurate information. Some jews are trying to destroy the islamic community by introducing extremism from an islamic perspective on thier websites and islamic opponents have even created fake quran known as “the furqan” (search amazon books you’ll see) and fortunately the truth had already surfaced as soon as this book was brought on market (Didn’t I tell you that Allah said that he will take the responsibility of preserving the quran?)
Concerning the references and contradictions in the bible, don’t worry I’ll give you the information…
And yes, one interesting question which further puzzled the geovah witness:
they said that bible is the message of god and I asked them why new testimonials are out? I’m not exagerrating but the facts in the quran are still intact, no information has been added,removed or corrected but why the bible needs to be updated? It keeps on changing?
For example, I just took what u wrote above and added error and googled for it :
islam embryo development errors
and checked the first result. It’s a long article and so i just checked the end and it explains the inconsistencies.
if you want correct infos, perform a search @ http://www.arabnews.com
it’s a newspaper but it provides correct info about Islam.
google can be termed as your friend but it’s not.
ahhh… this is still going on :p
anywayz
@ yasir: religion is not man made..take for example islam(my religion) it’s not man made.
I don’t wanna bash any religion, I belief in god, and i understand your belief in god, but nevertheless, I claim the religion is man made.
As you said yourself.. the quran contains the words of allah, being passed on through mohammed… and isn’t mohamed a human being?
That’s why i say, all religions are a fabrication of the human mind, and that phenomenon which everyone seems to be soo hell bent on liking… i.e society.
Religion is good, like it may be bad, religion has words which once applied… those books were written in a period where the meanings were written according to that time… whether its god words or not, we can’t show that, BUT, we know that religion can be ambiguous if we don’t properly understand many of its meaning and taker everything literally.
I again wish to clear, i am not making any wrong comments whatsoever on ANY religion, this is just my opinion, and it applies for all religions, even mine.
I haven’t denied existence of allah or jesus, or shiv or any other god, i just want you to see the difference between god and religion.. religion can be used to do a lot of things..good or bad.. that depends.
hahahaha it was really amazing to see the geovah witness getting perplexed when I told them that bible had many contradictions and it’s not the word of god
Hmm yasir, if you believe in god, then you must know that bashing other religions and the faith of others is just plainly… sinful … so are you sure you are a believer.. and a good person?
And as far as the other comments on the bible… yasir, you must understand that religion is by its nature man made and certain rituals needs to be changed according to its time, but the essence of it should be to promote “good”. Shaving the head or covering the head doesn’t make someone good… it just makes someone ‘appear to be good.. and we are living in a world that many uses appearance to fool the mass… hence the appearance side must be cut off.. religion needs to be always morphing to accept changes.. else it becomes an strict set of rules.. just like society.. and its purpose of promoting good human beings would be not be achieved.
@ yasir.. there are many other books written about those in far far more distant past that that which coverred those topics in more details :)… search and ye shall find.
and now at zetwal :p
(learn English plz) and I can see his point: if people can believe in God with so flimsy evidence, they might as well believe in superman!
lol .. he has been sarcastic indeed.. but vey illogical… after hearing soo much great things about jojo i was a bit taken aback at this illogical sarcasm…
lol.. if you wanna be sarcasic and nt o meant that you wanna belng that seems to be god… lmao.. atleast take an example where the character isn’t known to make public appearances atleast!
that’s why seeing no balid arguments i haven’t been posting :p.
If my memory serves me right, even Jesus was against such practices!
indeed, yasir seems to be wrongly informed.
@yasir:but why the bible needs to be updated? It keeps on changing?
lol please read my comments above.. it answers your questions.
have fun :p
(i wonder where irina is :p she’s stopped giving any valid arguments since a long time..its no longer fun if she isn’t in :p)
+$3|v3n
The million-dollar answer. Why we are here? Imaging been one God that knows everything and has the power to created and do anything he wants. Now forget everything you know about him and all the roles we have created or were created for us by others. You are God all alone in the universe nothing to do or experience. How wonderful will be for you to divide your self into everything in the universe and us. Imagine every cell in your body experiencing a different life all by it self and you been the receiver of that experience. We are those cells of god we free will to do as we please. We all are divine creatures’ able to created this world and everything we see, do and feel. Christ tries telling us this but religion has change everything and has blind us. God’s will is for us to experience live for ourselves not thru other experiences. And all come down to one thing “LOVE”. So love and workship yourself for we are all GOD!
We have it backwards…it is a paradox..from the first(the first spark of life is the miracle) amino acids to 1 celled creatures to complex organisms negotiating our existence we have evolving systems and evolving knowledge. Enough to now see the DNA code and the exactness(just look at the periodic table) of all matter living or not is related. We now can send DNA to other planets and eventually further. We are becoming God thru evolving forward. The Universe created life to understand itself. The sun will eventually burn out in our solar system but now we can preserve the code of life and send it elsewhere. Life evolves to stay that way …ALIVE!! Even after our earth and sun no longer exist to cradle us we can move on…..that is immortality. I do not need miracles from Jesus to believe his message was to bring us together. Someone does something beyond our comprehension it seems like a miracle….ignorance cries for an explanation then settles on a religious belief out of selfishness and laziness(Mark Twain in his “The lowest Animal” exposes this human nature in an entertaining way even before we decoded the DNA molecule-he must have been a profit or a child from God or maybe a real smart smart ass)…the explanation evolves as life does- that is the miracle. Enjoy your short little niche in the little time you have in this great existence.
“Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only religious Animal. He is the only Animal with the true religion……..several of them. He is the only Animal who loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn’t straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe trying his honest best to smooth his brothers path to happiness and heaven…..The higher animals have no religion. And we are told we are going to be left out of the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.”…………Mark Twain
Woops …the quote is(above) ..We are told “they” are going to be left out of the hereafter……..took the timing and meaning away from his great humor w/ that typo……..Sorry Sam Clemens
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When the Bible says man was created in the image of God it’s saying we have a mind, will and emotions like him. We have rational thought (most of us anyway lol), we have a will to do whatever we want, and we feel like he can feel. It isn’t talking about all the things God can do for us. Your article does seem biased like you said, but it does do well to point out some evils in humanity. Many times we DO try to see God as we are, but pretty soon we start following something that isn’t even God in the first place.
And a couple of responses to this article really have me concerned. They talk about all the bad things in the world and say “see! there’s no God because there is bad stuff going on!” stop whining. YOU made the bad decision, not God. YOU are the greedy one, not God. YOU are the one who fucked up, not God. Stop passing the blame on to God because you’re an idiot. The world is the way it is today because we dont give a shit about our neighbors (God says to love them). The world is the way it is today because we only help ourselves (God says to help the needy, orphans and widows) The world is the way it is today because we’re never satisfied with what we have (God says to be content). So you try to use “the world is messed up” as proof that God doesn’t exist again, because from what you know now, God is the exact OPPOSITE of what the world is today because of us.
I think one man explained it the absolute best.
“Question with boldness even the existance of God; for if there be one he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind folded fear.” -Thomas Jefferson
I, myself, do not believe in God. I do believe, however, of the “idea” of God. That one “thing” had to create all “things”, living or not. I do not believe in the humans idea of God, of one “omnipowerful” being. I would like to think that relying on oneself is much more fulfilling than thinking that someone helped you along the way. Wouldn’t it be better to know that when you get to a point in your life that you have to work incredibly hard to overcome, you did it on your own? Not that someone was standing beside you, holding your hand all the way through?
I don’t particularly care about what other people believe. It is their choice as to what they subject themselves to and I have no right to intervene with that choice. However, I do care when others try to force their religon upon someone else. If you ask me what I believe and you do not agree with it, do not stand there for a 20 minutes trying to sway my free thought. I will not try to sway yours and I expect the same in return. It also bugs me considerably when people let their children die, get hurt, or live with something cripling all because they say, “Oh, God will take care of it.” I cannot count the number of times where I have seen little children die because of this ABSOLUTE FOOLISHNESS. Terrorists plant car bombs and fly planes into buildings all in the name of “religion”. People have been massacred and tortured because of “religion”. To me it is not a question of faith, or the afterlife, but a question of intelligence. Some people just can’t except the fact that when we die we’re burried in the ground and rot, I guess some of our ego’s are just a little to big to end there, no matter how long our life-span may be.
-I’m sorry to all those who may be offended by my comment but someone has to take the other side of the arguement once and a while, and right now this happens to be the logical side. 🙂
Believe in yourself. That’s all… And take responsibility for it. Fair and square. Else we’ll all still be arguing about who’s right or wrong in 3000 years. And so far… That has not led us anywhere… Has it?
In ancient times the pharoh’s believed they were gods, as well as in later times in different cultures, there was no single omnipotent god. I was until centuries later that it was decided that it was way more convenient to believe in a single deity,rather that one each fopr the sun, the moon, vitality, fertility etc…
WHO CREATED GOD?
Earlier it was impossible for us to give any satisfactory answer to this question. But modern science, rather we should say that Einstein, has made it an easy task for us. And Stephen Hawking has provided us with the clue necessary for solving this riddle. Actually scientists in their infinite wisdom have already kept the ground well-prepared for us believers so that one day we can give a most plausible and logically sound answer to this age-old question. Let us first see how Hawking has helped us by providing the necessary clue. In his book “A Brief History of Time” (Chapter: The origin and fate of the universe) he informs us that there are 1080 particles in the region of the observable universe. Then he raised the question regarding the origin of these particles, and gave the answer himself. According to quantum theory particles can be created out of energy in the form of particle/antiparticle pairs. But there the question does not stop. Another question props up regarding the origin of that energy. But when it is said that total energy of the universe is exactly zero, then all is said and done. So this is the clue: if we can somehow arrive at zero, then no further question will be raised, and there will be no infinite regression. What I intend to do here is something similar to that. I want to show that our God is a bunch of several zeroes, and that therefore no further question need be raised about His origin. And here comes Einstein with his special theory of relativity for giving us the necessary empirical support to our project.
God is a Being. Therefore God will have existence as well as essence. So I will have to show that both from the point of view of existence as well as from the point of view of essence God is zero. It is almost a common saying that God is spaceless, timeless, changeless, immortal, and all-pervading. Here we are getting three zeroes; space is zero, time is zero, change is zero. But how to prove that if there is a God, then that God will be spaceless, timeless, and changeless? From special theory of relativity we come to know that for light both distance and time become unreal. For light even an infinite distance is infinitely contracted to zero. The volume of an infinite universe full of light only will be simply zero due to this property of light. A universe with zero volume is a spaceless universe. Again at the speed of light time totally stops. So a universe full of light only is a spaceless, timeless universe. But these are the properties of light only! How do we come to know that God is also having the same properties of light so that God can also be spaceless, timeless? Scientists have shown that if there is a God, then that God can only be light, and nothing else, and that therefore He will have all the properties of light. Here is the proof.
Scientists have shown that total energy of the universe is always zero. If total energy is zero, then total mass will also be zero due to energy-mass equivalence. Now if there is a God, then scientists have calculated the total energy and mass of the universe by taking that God into consideration. In other words, if there is a God, then this total energy-mass calculation by the scientists is God-inclusive, not God-exclusive. This is due to two reasons. First of all, even if there is a God, they are not aware of the fact that there is a God. Secondly, they do not believe that there is a God. So, if there is a God, then they have not been able to keep that God aside before making this calculation, because they do not know that there is a God. They cannot say that they have kept Him aside and then made this calculation, because by saying so they will admit that there is a God. They cannot say that the behind-the-picture God has always remained behind the picture, and that He has in no way come into the picture when they have made this calculation, because by saying so they will again admit that there is a God. At most they can say that there is no God. But we are not going to accept that statement as the final verdict on God-issue, because we are disputing that statement. So the matter of the fact is this: if God is really there, then total mass and total energy of the universe including that God are both zero. Therefore mass and energy of God will also be zero. God is without any mass, without any energy. And Einstein has already shown that anything having zero rest-mass will have the speed of light. In other words, it will be some sort of light. So, if God is there, then God will also be light, and therefore He will be spaceless, timeless. So from the point of view of existence God is zero, because he is spaceless, timeless, without any mass, without any energy.
Now we will have to show that from the point of view of essence also God is zero. If there is only one being in the universe, and if there is no second being other than that being, then that being cannot have any such property as love, hate, cruelty, compassion, benevolence, etc. Let us say that God is cruel. Now to whom can He be cruel if there is no other being other than God Himself? So, if God is cruel, then is He cruel to Himself? Therefore if we say that God is all-loving, merciful, benevolent, etc., then we are also admitting that God is not alone, that there is another being co-eternal with God to whom He can show His love, benevolence, goodness, mercy, compassion, etc. If we say that God is all-loving, then we are also saying that this “all” is co-eternal with God. Thus we are admitting that God has not created the universe at all, and that therefore we need not have to revere Him, for the simple reason that He is not our creator!
It is usually said that God is good. But Bertrand Russell has shown that God cannot be good for the simple reason that if God is good, then there is a standard of goodness which is independent of God’s will. (Book: A History of Western Philosophy, Ch: Plato’s Utopia). Therefore, if God is the ultimate Being, then that God cannot be good. But neither can He be evil. God is beyond good and evil. Like Hindu’s Brahma, a real God can only be nirguna, nirupadhik; without any name, without any quality. From the point of view of essence also, a real God is a zero. Mystics usually say that their God is a no-thing. This is the real God, not the God of the scriptures.
So, why should there be any need of creation here, if God is existentially, as well as essentially, zero?
But if there is someone who is intelligent and clever enough, then he will not stop raising question here. He will point out to another infinite regression. If God is light, then He will no doubt be spaceless, timeless, etc. Therefore one infinite regression is thus stopped. But what about the second regression? How, and from whom, does light get its own peculiar properties by means of which we have successfully stopped the first regression? So, here is another infinite regression. But we need not have to worry much about this regression, because this problem has already been solved. A whole thing, by virtue of its being the whole thing, will have all the properties of spacelessness, timelessness, changelessness, deathlessness. It need not have to depend on any other external source for getting these properties. Thus no further infinite regression will be there.
Simple. Man created God in his own image. And yes, God does exist and always has. But not as we understand it. Its due to the collective consciousness of mankind and the faith in one God where our “God” has been created. Ponder this, its happened to everyone at least once. You think of someone, they call. You get a premonition, it happens.
Imagine billions of people, for thousands of years praying to Buddha, Mohammed , Jesus and the like. The universal powers on a quantum level are manifested. look into the power of mankinds collective consciousness. Global Consciousness Project maintain a world-wide network of random number generators known as he EGG experiment